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Comments on Can we have a separate category for identification requests?

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Can we have a separate category for identification requests?

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(Not sure whether it's too early to request this, but here goes anyway!)

One of the suggestions in the Music proposal on Meta was to have separate categories for certain topics. I would like to reiterate one of those suggestions, namely a category for identification requests.

In a past life, I used to be fairly active on Music Fans SE, and ID questions were problematic there, to say the least. There was (and continues to be) much love and hate for them from different parts of the community. Some of the reasons for this are as follows:

  • ID questions are usually of "low quality". Little more than a link to a song, or a video with the background song to be identified, is usually provided. Sometimes, the OP can only post some vague descriptions of the music video they had seen.
  • Answers to the ID questions usually end up becoming a guessing game, which completely goes against SE's Q&A model. Consequently, votes are not useful in determining whether an ID question has been answered satisfactorily or not.
  • Answers to ID questions are also often of "low quality", with little more than the name of the suggested song, the artist, and a link (and usually not even all three together).
  • ID questions easily become deprecated, since links to songs/videos often become deprecated. Moreover, it is rare for the OP to return to a question and update the link, so it is often impossible to salvage an ID question with a deprecated link.
  • They are uninteresting, based on engagement (no. of votes, comments, answers). Moreover, they steadily take over the front page, possibly leading to less overall engagement in the site.

All that being said, here are some reasons that a few folks at Music Fans SE are in favour of keeping ID questions:

  • Music identification is fun! It's what brought many users to the community in the first place.
  • A correct identification can sometimes come out of nowhere — many questions with nothing but vague descriptions have managed to receive correct answers.
  • They are useful to many people. Some of the most highly viewed posts on Music Fans SE are ID questions, and many "answers" turn up much later saying that that is the exact song they too were looking for.

To summarise, music ID questions are a bad fit in the SE model. I am aware that some SE sites do allow ID requests successfully, notably Literature SE in my experience. But, my guess for why music ID questions do especially poorly is because describing music is hard! You have this tune in your head that moves in a certain way, but verbalizing that is very difficult for the average person. Moreover, music search is more or less impossible. If you have a sample readily available and Shazam or SoundHound can correctly identify it, then that's great, but even these apps have their limitations.

However, we are obviously not SE so we're not bound by their Q&A model. I think it makes sense to keep a separate category for ID questions (provided we're not disallowing music ID questions from the outset). Then:

  • The issue of these questions "taking over the front page" is immediately avoided.
  • I'm not sure to what extent customization is possible, but a different system than upvotes/downvotes on answers might help.
  • Having a separate category could also allow a different set of guidelines for what counts as "quality" in questions and answers, one that is more useful for ID requests and is not defined by the style of questions on Main.
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General comments (9 comments)
General comments
Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

I agree completely. What would be the category name? "Music identification"? "Song identification"?

The Amplitwist‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Lundin "Music identification" sounds good to me! I'll just add that on Music Fans SE there are the following ID tags: song, sample, genre, video, band, artist, album, instrument, and effect (though song identification is the most popular tag by far).

The Amplitwist‭ wrote over 3 years ago

If the "Music" part is redundant, then maybe just "Identification" could also be fine for the category name?

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Valaji Ragam Yeah actually, I suppose artist identification etc would also be on topic. Regarding the tags, we can have mandatory tags (like on meta "discussion", "support" etc) but I don't think the site supports mandatory tags per category. I think this site will need more categories yet though. Perhaps one for gear recommendations (instruments etc), one for music fans etc.

The Amplitwist‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Lundin How about one category called "Recommendations" for all recommendations together, that is, gear recommendations as well as artist/music recommendations? (I was planning to make a separate Meta post for this, so that voting on it can be separate.) I'm not sure how one for music fans would work, maybe you could elaborate what you have in mind?

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Valaji Ragam‭ I suppose music fans would be everything related to the works of artists/composers, rather than playing, composing, music theory etc. That is, same distinction as SE made with a separate site. "Gear recommendations" is just the same name as other Codidact communities already use. Outdoors, Photography etc have such a category. Maybe "Instruments" would be less confusing in this context though? Though gear could as be composing software, amplifiers etc I suppose.

The Amplitwist‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

@Lundin Hmm, I think I follow you... So, would it be alright to combine gear recommendations ("what geat/instrument/etc. should I buy based on my needs") with music recommendations ("what new artists/genres should I listen to based on my interests") into a single "Recommendations" category? Just "Instruments" would be a bit confusing for the name, I'll say.

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Valaji Ragam‭ "What do I like" questions are simply going to get closed, since that's hopelessly subjective. Actually, recommendation-like questions are often not very suitable for the Q&A format so maybe "gear recommendations" was a bad name to begin with. It shouldn't attract subjective questions along the lines of "what should I do" but rather "how do I tune my guitar of model x".

The Amplitwist‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

@Lundin I agree that recommendation-like questions are not suitable for a Q&A format; in fact, though they are currently accepted in Music Fans SE under the [similar-artists] tag, they cause plenty of grief alongside ID questions. I'm wondering, though, if by creating a separate category for such questions we could solve some of the issues with them, much like those with ID questions.